God with us or Christ in you???

Matthew 1:23 (KJV):  “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”  or  “To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”  Colossians 1:27

Which is it “God with us” or “Christ in you”? 

Those verses should prompt one to, if not already, to re-consider dispensations:  Dispensation of “Law”; “Grace”, or “Kingdom”;  are they the same? are they different? what makes them different? and how does that impact my salvation or does it?  

Back to the subject verse; God with us or Christ in us.  Can’t be both, or can it?  has to be one or the other, agreed?  Until Paul’s conversion God was with man.  God at times would come upon individuals and the Holy Spirit would give power to the individual to accomplish the will of the Father.  One instance was when Samson was being held by the Philistines:   “And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands.” Judges 15:14.

Maybe also with Isaiah’s prophecy:  “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;
because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,  to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;”  Then Jesus’s fulfillment: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”  Luke 4:18-19.  Then “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”  Luke 4:21b.  So then those are a short listing, where God’s Spirit would come upon man but not be in man. Why?  i don’t know if God’s Spirit comes upon individuals today though, scripture doesn’t say.  So if not written i will not suppose or assume.

Why wouldn’t God place His Spirit in to believers before Christ.?  Jesus, the Christ was to be the firstfruit:  “And we (believers) know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his (God’s) purpose. For whom he (God) did foreknow (those to be saved), he (God) also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he (Jesus, the Christ) might be the firstborn among many brethren (those who would believe the gospel). Moreover whom he (God) did predestinate, them he (God) also called: and whom he (God) called, them he (God) also justified: and whom he (God) justified, them he (God) also glorified.”  Romans 8:28-30.   “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.” 1 Corinthians 15:20.  “But every man in his own order (dispensations of time, how God works with man): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”  1 Corinthians 15:23.  

The “firstfruits”:   the Torah (first five books of the Old Testament) go into great detail of firstfruits.  How to gather, when to gather, how and when to present, to whom and for what.  Overview is a shadowing of future events for man kind.  Briefly then:  Old Testament “firstfruits” were gathered early in season, to be waved before the LORD,  made into loaves and presented to the LORD mostly.  So the reapers would course the field, gather the heads of wheat or barley, as directed in the law.  Make up sheaves to be waved in ceremony and loaves to be presented in the tabernacle.  These firstfruits represent the saints of the Old Testament that by works of the law and faith where saved.   “Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.”  Isaiah 1:9.  We shouldn’t be led to believe that many or even most of Israel were saved.  Hebrews tells us: “Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:”  Hebrews 4:6. From what Isaiah wrote a “very small remnant” were God fearing, God believing and Law keeping.  Examples:  At the time of Noah world population is estimated at approximately 5 to 17 billion: ref:  www.Idolphin.org/pickett.htlm.Most on-line sites estimate 5 to 15 billion.  Of that how many were saved alive?  Eight “a very small remnant”.  It is said that approximately 3 million left Egypt; only two entered the promised land:  “Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me: save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the Lord. And the Lord’s anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.”  Numbers 32:11-13.  Sodom and Gomorra; Abraham pleading for 10, but there wasn’t.  Lot, his wife and two daughters escaped, and Lot’s wife later died from a lack of faith: not believing God.  Israel and 3+ years for Jesus’s ministry and only 120 were at the upper room.  God has never had a large following, but only “a very small remnant.

The second harvest period of scripture is the main harvest.  This isn’t Israel but Gentiles who come to believe the gospel:  “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”  1 Corinthians 15:1-4.  Jesus refers to it:  “Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.”  John 4:35.  Although Jesus came:  “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:” Romans 15:8.  And directed the twelve to: “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:”  Matthew 10:5.  There are other supporting scriptures confirming this else where; besides John 4:35 just given above.  Then Jesus’s intercessory prayer given in John 17 but in particular  saying, “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” John17:20-21.  Those two verses can also mean  the  Jewish and Gentiles alike, one surly sees that applied in “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”  John 3:16.  That verse is not the gospel that saves in this “dispensation of the grace of God” Ephesians 3:2.  There isn’t death, burial nor resurrection; nor is there “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.”  Hebrews 9:22.  Now two thousand years after the fact that surely they knew but the gospel that saves us today was not yet given, let alone comprehended. 

Sidebar:  “What saith the scriptures?    Paul was the first saved under this “dispensation of grace”.  “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.”  1 Timothy 1:15-16.

Read what it says.  

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;”  1 Timothy 1:15a

But! “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision (the Nation of Israel, the offer was made but was rejected, Jesus, their, Israel’s Christ, was rejected)  for the truth of God, to confirm the promises (promises made to Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon and Israel as a nation)  made unto the fathers:”  Romans 15:8.  “Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.”  Matthew 23:31 and “Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:”  1 Thessalonians 2:15.

“of whom I am chief”  1 Timothy 1:15b

As commonly taught chief: doesn’t mean the worst but means:                                                                                                                                                                        “the chief captain of his host” Genesis 21:22  “worst captain of the host?

 “the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers.”   Genesis 40:2 the worst?

“Aaron the priest shall be chief over the chief of the Levites,” Numbers 3:32

Aaron was the worst chief priest?

“So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you,” Deuteronomy 1:15  worst of your tribes?

“To the chief Musician on Neginoth, A Psalm of David.”  Psalms 4:1

the worst Musician?  used in this context 58x

“when the chief priests and Pharisees” Matthew 21:45  the worst, lowest ???

“Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.” Romans 3:2  the worst? or was it first, the foremost?

Paul was first and it’s so stated in the next verse:

“that in me first (Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Elizabethan English first still means first) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering” 1 Timothy 1:16b.  Paul explains how he considers himself to King Agrippa in Acts 26, how: “ I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being   

exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.”

Acts 26:9-11.  This may very well be why Paul is taught as “chief” but the scripture is not so written.  “for a pattern”  as seen “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 11:1.  “Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.”

Philippians 3:17.  “Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.”  1 Corinthians 4:16.  To whom was this given and why?  “But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”  When one attempts to beguile Paul, malign and talk down one makes himself:  “they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:”.Philippians 3:17b.

So, back to harvesting, we covered firstfruits and the main harvest.  We still have to go over the corners and the gleanings.  i believe that those refer to the believers in the tribulation that lose their lives for the truth of the gospel.  This isn’t the gospel of grace that Paul preaches and the dispensation of grace believers come under; that is over, it is pasted.  This is again the gospel of the kingdom of heaven preached by Jesus and the 12 apostles but now preached by the 144,000 of Revelation 7, of which whom will carry out the giving of the “Great Commission”.   When Israel, nationally rejected the King and the Kingdom of heaven; God put it on hold “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24.  This is a long time period:  606 BC (BCE) to the second advent.  The fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians to “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,” Zechariah 14:4a:  The time of Christ’s physical return, second advent. 

Back to the featured verse:  “God with us” or “Christ in You”.  Which is better?  The writer of Hebrews speaks:  “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.” It is spoken to Israel because Gentiles never had a covenant or been promised by God.  Israel were to be but they rejected their place:  “But the Lord said unto him, (Ananias) Go thy way: for he (Saul, later Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me (Jesus, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:”  Acts 9:15.  

In conclusion:  God addressed the whole world from Adam to Abram.  God was rejected by man.  God goes to one man Abram to make a people a nation for Himself.  Goes from Abraham to Moses: when God has made them a nation in Egypt calls them forth. Israel rejects God and die in the wilderness.

God raises up David at Israel’s request, David is Gods earthly representation of the king & kingdom of heaven to come.  Israel again rejects God’s provision, God goes to the Gentiles by Paul.  Not as to a nation but God to man by Christ Jesus.  Most reject Jesus.  God stops approaching Gentiles and again goes to Israel to finish Daniel’s seventh week, the tribulation.  The LORD Jesus Christ returns (2nd advent) Israel now accepts their King and the kingdom of heaven starts and runs a thousand years.  At the end of the thousand years; “But every man in his own order (dispensational periods): Christ the firstfruits (Christ’s resurrection, only begotten); afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming (catching away, rapture). Then cometh the end, (tribulation, 1000 year reign) when he shall have delivered up the kingdom (kingdom of heaven) to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15:23-24.   Then is the Kingdom of God, which is all encompassing of both the kingdom of heaven, Jewish believers “God with us”, and those who believed Paul’s gospel, “the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:” Acts 9:15 Paul’s commissioning to present the gospel “Christ in you”; the Church age, the body of Christ.  

God started creation with one:  “Adam”;  God saved the physical world through one “Noah”;  God brought hope by one “Abraham”;  God brought order by one “Moses”;  God brought life by one Jesus Christ”; God now brings salvation by faith through one “Paul”.  What is so hard about that????

Thank You LORD Jesus for loving me, giving me Your life.  You have allowed me to understand Your plan, Your hope, Your way; i am truly blessed.  i love you and know that You love me.  i am waiting for Your soon return either through death which is escape from this body of this death, or by Your actual return where all that are in You will be caught away, either way, to be absent from this dead body and alive with you for ever.  In Jesus’s name Amen . . . . .